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Post by nomorewirehanger on Nov 12, 2015 20:03:42 GMT -7
Now. I think where I stand would be obvious.
However, I must preface this by saying I love animals. Grew up with dogs and a cat and any other weird animal my brother drug home. Rode horses. Desperately want enough property to have goats and chickens and horsies. *yay *
That said. I don't get it. I do not get the manner of thinking that people advocate for the needs and wants of animals over children. Makes zero fucking sense to me. At all. They can bash people who return an animal but don't bat an eye at homeless vets or the number of children in desperate need of adoption. I've heard all their arguments. I don't get it. How is at cats life worth more than that of a human child?
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Post by smokinghorse on Nov 12, 2015 21:03:21 GMT -7
I cannot tell you how many times and for how many years I have thought the exact. same. thing. Sometimes I'll see an ASPCA commercial, followed by a plea to help hungry kids, sick kids, homeless kids, and I just don't get it. I start wondering if I'm somehow mentally challenged in an animal empathy area of the brain.
I tell myself that it's none of my business. I tell myself people can spend their money any way they want to.
But when I think about it, it's crazy to think that if a person walking down the sidewalk comes upon a dog and a child both with "hungry, please help" signs, that person would opt for the dog??
Not to mention the fact that happy, healthy humans are much more likely to take good care of their pets.
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Post by nomorewirehanger on Nov 12, 2015 21:48:47 GMT -7
I guess that's my thing. I share the posts about. animals needing homes. I volunteer to moderate actually a local shelter page that has helped me locate my dog's unruly ass a few times (figured that was the least I can do)
And I always think.... where the fuck is the public outcry when the lights got shut off at the Boys and girls clubs because they lost funding.....
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Post by smokinghorse on Nov 12, 2015 23:08:04 GMT -7
We have become so desensitized in this country. I have absolutely nothing to back me up, but I have a theory that part of the problem is that children can be written off because they are associated with particular segments of the population. For instance: well, if his parents can't afford to feed their children then they should stop having them.
That allows them to lump the hungry kid in with a demographic that they already dismiss. They're not anti-children, they're anti-welfare. Never mind that the children in question are still going hungry while the debate rages on. Another issue that we'd rather point fingers at and place blame for than to just fucking make Johnny a ham sandwich.
Dogs, on the other hand, have no political affiliation, are helpless, have no resources, and exist almost solely to please us. It's not their fault. It doesn't matter what their parents did. It doesn't matter what color they are. Basically, they have no baggage.
I know it sounds crazy, but a situation this crazy cries out for something, ANYTHING that might help explain it.
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Post by ronin on Nov 13, 2015 5:39:53 GMT -7
Agreed.
Every month a meet with a group of local business people, Phoenix PD and Phoenix Neighborhood Services. Last week, someone complained about a group of tents that were set up on a piece of abandoned property. Usually, that's a homeless camp, but this time it was a group that had set up the tents as a supply station to help homeless vets.
Immediately, I thought, "Aw, well that's nice of them." Everyone else was asking Neighborhood Services, "What can you do to get rid of it?"
I was disappointed. Yeah the tents are an eye sore, but so is the homeless guy dying next to your building because he can't get water. It happens all the time.
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Post by nomorewirehanger on Nov 13, 2015 5:54:27 GMT -7
We have become so desensitized in this country. I have absolutely nothing to back me up, but I have a theory that part of the problem is that children can be written off because they are associated with particular segments of the population. For instance: well, if his parents can't afford to feed their children then they should stop having them. That allows them to lump the hungry kid in with a demographic that they already dismiss. They're not anti-children, they're anti-welfare. Never mind that the children in question are still going hungry while the debate rages on. Another issue that we'd rather point fingers at and place blame for than to just fucking make Johnny a ham sandwich. Dogs, on the other hand, have no political affiliation, are helpless, have no resources, and exist almost solely to please us. It's not their fault. It doesn't matter what their parents did. It doesn't matter what color they are. Basically, they have no baggage. I know it sounds crazy, but a situation this crazy cries out for something, ANYTHING that might help explain it. Tbh my community is extremely anti welfare. Not to mention racist. "That's not my problem. They get granite counter tops in. section 8 housing now." *side note. The section 8 apartments here are nicer than most peoples homes. It's... an issue for a LOT of people * I'm trying to get my kids involved on one of the most beautiful local ministries that will allow kids to help. It's call Lunch sack Ministries, and a lady I had previously written off as the most sanctimonious bitch runs it (don't judge books by their cover. I chant to myself daily now) she collects food and everyday on her lunch break from work delivers sack lunches to any homeless she can find. Gets them blankets and coats. They know her by first name now. She's currently filling giant "paper" grocery "lunch sacks" this year to help shelter families have a Thanksgiving. meal. Yea. I'm all over that. To the point I completely wrote off the school food drives this year (my kids don't need an ice cream party to incite them to be kind for kindness sake) I've informed my husband we are filling no less than four of those sacks. And the B and girls are gonna help. Lil Bit got mad and was like "ice cream party!!!" And I said "We can help four families for the price of your precious ice cream party. We can afford to help this year but it is limited. So I'm choosing giving to people truly in need. " She will get it. When we are delivering groceries to folks sharing a shelter kitchen? She will get it. |
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Post by nomorewirehanger on Nov 13, 2015 6:00:54 GMT -7
Another thing: the animal people. The posts where the dog is back at the shelter multiple times because "her forever homes" just are so mean and "don't want this sweet girl"
Some dogs and cats are assholes. It's a fact. "They are what their owners made them" is the battle cry.
OK. In that case? We owe every incarcerated person full release, an apology, and a forever home.
They are just what their parents made them after all.
If the animal keeps coming back??? Something might just be wrong with the damn dog. Not the people. Sheesh.
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Post by ronin on Nov 13, 2015 6:20:37 GMT -7
Amen about the asshole pets. We adopted a cat 14 years ago. That thing wants nothing to do with us. We've always been nice to her. We get growling and hissing for our efforts. Her name is supposed to be Rogue, but I think she's more likely to answer to Fuck You, because it's what she hears us 'call' her more often.
Stupid thing. At least we get to feed her and clean her cat box. > : (
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kissy
OG
I want a new drug...
Posts: 855 
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Post by kissy on Nov 13, 2015 6:52:32 GMT -7
Yikes. I was going to offer my take but I can see I'm not on the right side of this fence, LOL!
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Post by ronin on Nov 13, 2015 7:24:30 GMT -7
You're missing your chance to turn this in to an actual debate Kissy.
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kissy
OG
I want a new drug...
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Post by kissy on Nov 13, 2015 8:07:40 GMT -7
I suppose. I guess I don't really see the 'debate'? Is the life of a human child worth more than that of a pet? Of course it is and I honestly believe you'd be hard pressed to find very many people who disagree with that. Do they exist? Of course they do, there are a lot of fucked up thinking people in this world, but they are the few, not the many.
Comparing the plight of homeless animals and homeless people is just silly. There is no comparison, they are two separate issues and just because a person feels strongly about homeless animals doesn't mean they are dismissing the other.
When I was in college I had to do a persuasive speech for my public speaking class. Mine was about shelter animals vs. puppy mills. I went to my local shelter and was appalled to see the reasons people had 'surrendered' their animals. Pets are far to often seen as throw aways when things just don't work out the way the human expected them to. It's frustrating. It happens all. the. time. Sure, some animals are surrendered because it's literally the only option, however that is not the norm, IMO. There may be stats out there somewhere regarding this. The fact is there ARE ways to work around a lot of these issues it's just too many people aren't willing to put in the effort. 'It's just a dog, it's just a cat'. I can't tell you how many times I've heard people say these things. Well no, it's not 'just', it's a part of your family and it's a responsibility and you don't get to just toss is out when it doesn't work for you.
Dogs and cats are used for therapy in many different arenas for human beings. They are used in situations where their life is less important than that of their human, and they do their job willingly. They are important. Like I said, there are ways to work around a lot of issues but some people just don't want to deal, and since it's 'just a dog' or 'just a cat', they become throw aways. It's this attitude that gets people so emotionally distraught when it comes to pet surrenders. And if you're one of those people who just doesn't get that emotional about it, that's fine, you don't have to! But it's totally ok and respectable for those who are emotional about it to do so and to advocate.
I have a friend who not long ago was being 'forced' to get rid of one of her dogs--a dog she had before she got married, because her husband decided the dogs (they 'had' two) were too mess to be in the house so they had to stay outside. The one dog had anxiety during thunderstorms, which some animals do just like some humans do, and she would become destructive because she was forced to stay outside. So her husband decided the dog had to go. Her plea on Facebook for a home for her sweet dog made me so incredibly sad for her. Fortunately she has a WONDERFUL friend who took her dog and she frequently shares pictures of how happy she is in her new home. Now, if my friend had felt as her husband did--it's 'just a dog' then it would have been much easier for them to surrender her to a shelter. The dog is an older Rott mix. If she would have been sent to a kill shelter I can almost guarantee you she'd be put down first, age and breed matter.
I've never once heard anyone say they care more about animals/pets than they do homeless veterans/homeless children. Never. Do those people exist? I'm sure they do but again, they are the few, not the many. Everyone has a choice in what causes they choose to participate/support and they also can choose how much they give to one over another. And just because someone emotionally advocates for surrendered pets doesn't mean they are putting animals above humans.
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kissy
OG
I want a new drug...
Posts: 855
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Post by kissy on Nov 13, 2015 8:25:25 GMT -7
Now if only would could spay and neuter humans who shouldn't procreate...  |
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Post by nomorewirehanger on Nov 13, 2015 8:43:36 GMT -7
I think for me, it's a matter of... if you're going to pick a soap box? Type of thing. The people I see advocating for animals mostly appear to prefer their company over those of humans. Which I can sympathize with. I like my dog better than most people too. And I will never ever deny that people are irresponsible when it comes to pets and assuming responsibility. My problem is the absolute pervasive and imo disgusting judgement that seems to stem from that community is very upsetting and I truly believe is a turn off to people who might turn to these places to adopt pets. Fear of judgement is an awful thing.
Friends of ours recently had to undergo a home inspection to adopt a two year old pit bull because they had recently lost their nine year old pitty to cancer, and the six year old was suffering as she was not used to being a solitary animal.
Interviews with friends, multiple vets who swore you would never find more loving and committed pet parents, and a ridiculous amount of money later and the animal service still almost didn't let them take the dog home because this is the type of couple that brings their dogs EVERYWHERE. "pits can't be around just anyone; we have to think about this"
Um. Their pits can. In fact their dogs are the only pit bulls Ive ever allowed around my children. I've never met more loving and well trained dogs and even my kids cried when slick boy passed because, that was their buddy.
I just wish people would channel half the energy they do into people causes as they do animals.
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Post by nomorewirehanger on Nov 13, 2015 8:45:35 GMT -7
Like... the scrutiny to adopt that dog should be applied to foster care. Lol seriously.
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Post by smokinghorse on Nov 13, 2015 9:04:14 GMT -7
All good points, Kissy. Gave me some food for thought. I guess I'm thinking (admittedly in a very all or nothing way), that I don't understand the millions of dollars people donate to protect animals from abusive, neglectful, and unthinkably inhumane conditions, when there are actual human people living in abusive, neglectful, and unthinkably inhumane conditions.
Possibly a short-sighted viewpoint, in light of the fact that I choose to spend money on feeding and veterinary care for my cat instead of donating it to a homeless shelter. I get that it's hypocritical.
On a larger scale, though, hypocrisy or no, I see celebrities offering up their time and money to organize massive fundraisers, host infomercials, and pledge millions of dollars to PETA or ASPCA. I understand that it's their money, and their business. I just can't take away the judgy/preachy thought that feeding hungry kids makes more sense. When I lived in L.A., I had a friend who was helping organize such an event, and I volunteered to help. Had to clear lots of space because people would be bringing their pets. Set up required "relocating" all the pesky homeless people in the area. It has definitely colored my opinions on this topic. I remember thinking that if you really want to end animal cruelty? Start with the human ones.
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